Making a BIG Change to My Portfolio

Dave:
I’m making an enormous change to my investing portfolio. I’m promoting shares and I’m doubling down on investing in actual property, however most likely not in the best way you assume. A number of months in the past, initially of January, I defined my upside period framework for investing in 2025. It’s all about discovering offers that work fairly properly in the present day, however have the potential to essentially develop and dump rocket gasoline in your portfolio over the following couple of years. And in the present day I’m going to share my upside period Q2 replace, together with some strikes that I’m making myself primarily based on every part that’s occurring within the economic system proper now. As a result of as you’ve most likely heard, there’s a ton of volatility throughout shares, crypto, and virtually each different asset class. However personally, I see alternative to reap the benefits of these circumstances utilizing actual property investing. And in the present day I’ll clarify how I’m personally doing that proper now.
Hey everybody, it’s Dave Meyer, head of Actual Property Investing right here at BiggerPockets. Welcome to in the present day’s present. When you’ve been listening to date this yr, you’ve most likely heard me speak lots about what I imagine is a type of new actuality in actual property investing, which I’m calling the Upside period. And if you wish to get the total framework that I’m utilizing to explain actual property proper now and to explain my very own deal choice making, you might take a look at Present 10 66. It aired on January sixth, 2025, and it goes into deep element about every part I’m excited about. So if you happen to missed that episode, I simply need to hold listening to this one proper now. Right here’s the gist of the framework and the way I’m excited about issues from 2013 to 2022 is what I name the Goldilocks period. It was principally this excellent conglomeration of circumstances that made actual property investing actually engaging, comparatively simple and tremendous profitable.
These are issues like costs happening through the nice recession. Whereas rents saved rising, we had low rates of interest and by 2013, lending exercise had began to renew. So it was fairly simple to get a mortgage and purchase properties at a comparatively good value, and that continued for like 10 years and lots of people obtained actually rich and it was nice for all the actual property investing trade. Then as everyone knows, 2022 hit rates of interest began to skyrocket and now we have skilled what I might take into account a correction or a recession in actual property. And I need to be clear that I’m not saying that costs have gone down or crashed. I believe there’s some confusion after I say generally that there’s type of a recession in actual property as a result of the phrase recession and what I’m describing proper now actually describes the general financial exercise of our trade and that indisputably has gone down from 2021 to 2024, we noticed almost a 50% drop within the variety of houses which might be purchased and bought.
So simply by that measure alone, now we have been in a recession. We’ve additionally seen largely costs have slowed down lots, they’re nonetheless rising, however they’ve slowed down lots. Lease progress has slowed down beneath long-term averages and in plenty of areas and plenty of asset courses they’ve truly declined. And so it’s been a extremely robust couple of years in all the actual property trade in 20 23, 20 24, and clearly the second half of 2022 as properly. However now as we flip the web page and go into 2025, I believe we’re coming into a completely new period for actual property investing and it’s what I name the upside period. And I need to be clear, and I believe that is actually vital, that this new upside period has plenty of nice alternatives and there’s going to be nice methods for actual property traders, giant, small, inexperienced, tremendous skilled to revenue and profit from this new period, however it will be completely different from earlier period.
It’s not going to be prefer it was from 2013 to 2022 when every part was simply tremendous apparent and form of simple. As an alternative, you’re going to should be a little bit bit extra artistic and I believe look a little bit bit additional into the long run to know how you can generate the most effective returns. Alright, so that’s my overview of the Upside period and as I discussed on the high of the present, what we’re going to enter in the present day is a few strikes that I’ve personally made in my very own portfolio to reap the benefits of this new period and the alternatives which might be going to be current and worthwhile going ahead. So earlier than I clarify although what I’ve truly carried out within the final couple of weeks, I need to type of offer you an perception into my technique and this framework that I’ve been utilizing for deal choice. So my private technique within the upside period is to search out offers that make sense in the present day.
I don’t need to have something that’s shedding cash. I need them to have the ability to break even throughout the first yr of possession. And I do know that break even doesn’t sound like essentially the most attractive factor, however let me simply clarify to you why I take into consideration this manner. In the beginning, I’m not speaking about that social media break even the place individuals simply take their lease revenue, subtract their mortgage fee and say that’s cashflow. That’s not it. Actual breakeven, you need to be speaking about CapEx, upkeep turnover, value vacancies. So I’m saying that you just break even and nonetheless generate precise constructive cashflow after correctly accounting for each expense and sustaining a money reserve. And if you’ll be able to do this, although it doesn’t sound as attractive as what lots of people say their offers are, I nonetheless assume that is truly higher than a inventory market return as a result of let’s simply say breakeven, you’re getting a 1% money on money return.
5 years in the past, nobody would purchase a 1% money on money return deal, however on this upside period, I’ll inform you why I might not less than take into account it. I’m not saying I might purchase something that breaks even. Lemme simply offer you an instance. When you have been to generate a 1% money on money return, that’s a little bit of a return, nice. However then you definitely most likely get two to three% return simply from amortization that’s paying off your mortgage. Then if you happen to get appreciation even of two% with leverage, that may be one other three or 4% upside and return in your funding. After which tax advantages are normally one other 1% return as properly. So once you put all these issues collectively, you’re speaking a few seven to 10% whole return throughout your whole funding. And that’s not cashflow. I needed to make that clear. That could be a mixture of constructing fairness and cashflow and tax advantages, however once you have a look at that return profile, I believe it’s not less than pretty much as good or probably higher than what you get within the inventory market as a result of if you happen to look traditionally, the inventory market returns someplace between eight and 10% annualized return.
So we have been speaking about only a break even actual property deal doing in addition to the typical inventory market yr. And that is what you need to be evaluating your offers to as a result of yeah, this may not be pretty much as good because it was in 2015, this excellent Goldilocks golden period of actual property, however as an actual property investor, you must be excited about useful resource allocation and the place you might be placing your cash. And admittedly, none of us can put our cash right into a 2015 actual property deal. You may both put your cash in a financial savings account, you might put it into bonds, you might put it into crypto, you’ll be able to put it within the inventory market or you’ll be able to put it into personal actual property. And so I encourage you, whether or not you make the identical selections as I do or not, these are all subjective, however I actually encourage you to consider your investing selections this manner.
The place are you going to place your cash in the present day to greatest enhance your monetary future? Don’t be evaluating in the present day’s actual property offers to historic offers that will by no means be coming again. So that’s the first a part of the framework. So don’t get me mistaken, I’m not saying simply exit and purchase any type of break even deal that’s simply the primary standards for offers that I’m trying to purchase. It has to not less than break even as a result of that units my flooring the minimal for my funding might be doing about in addition to the inventory market give or take a few factors. And it additionally clearly will depend on how the inventory market performs that yr. However then the second a part of the framework is actually the vital, and I believe the thrilling half is the place you must establish two or three, what I name upsides per deal that would take these common breakeven offers from strong and on par with the inventory market to wonderful and one thing that’s going to outperform the inventory market properly into the long run.
As a result of sure, I do need my deal to do in addition to the inventory market in yr one, however let’s be sincere, actual property investing is extra work. It’s extra stress than proudly owning inventory and shopping for an index fund. And so I want elements of my deal to supply upside far and away above what I’m incomes in an index fund. And that’s why I have to search for these two or three upsides. And simply as a reminder, a few of these upsides are principally ways in which I can take that seven to 10% return and switch it from one thing that’s simply a 12 to fifteen% return. And these are issues like investing within the path of progress, on the lookout for zoning upside the place it may well add a unit, add a bed room, add an A DU. That is issues like discovering locations the place there are provide constraints and rents are prone to go up.
These are all completely different upsides. And once you have a look at the framework altogether, if you could find a deal that’s breakeven after which you will have two, three, possibly even 4 of those type of little bets that you’re putting in your property, if one or two of these bets come true, then you definitely’re going to take this from a median actual property deal to an excellent actual property deal over the course of a number of years. And though this may sound a bit completely different than how different individuals make investments, that is form of the way it’s all the time labored, proper? You’re all the time looking for offers which might be going to develop and enhance over time. I simply assume it’s significantly vital proper now on this upside period to set your expectations appropriately for what offers are going to seem like once you purchase them after which calculate how the return goes to develop over time and concentrate on that as a result of actual property investing frankly simply is a long-term sport and that’s how you actually have to be excited about it in in the present day’s day and age. Alright, so that’s the upside error and the recap of the framework that I’m personally utilizing. And we do should take a fast break, however once we come again, I’m going to share with you the strikes that I personally made in Q1 to set myself up for much more upside in Q2 and past. We’ll be proper again.
Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. We’re right here in the present day speaking in regards to the upside period and earlier than the break I type of did a recap of the upside period and my framework for getting offers right here in 2025. Now I need to present you simply with a private replace and the way I’ve been excited about my very own portfolio, the strikes that I made again in QQ one and the strikes that I’m meaning to make and the way I’ve set myself up for progress by way of the remainder of 2025. So Q1, I’ve been engaged on one greater deal. I’m doing a stay and flip, which I’m tremendous enthusiastic about, however I’m not going to get an excessive amount of into that in the present day. I’ve made some gives on a few rental properties, however I haven’t been capable of pull the set off on any of that but. However I did make an enormous transfer in Q1 that I believe goes to essentially set me up for fulfillment for the remainder of 2025.
And I need to share it with you as a result of I believe it explains a number of of the completely different ways in which you might earn returns within the upside period and the way I’m excited about positioning myself for the long run. And I believe a few of the concepts and ideas that I take advantage of to make this choice and to make this transfer may useful to you. So let’s speak about what I did. And first I simply need to say that I need to share this with you within the spirit of transparency, however this isn’t private recommendation on what it’s best to do. You bought to consider it, your individual private scenario, your individual threat tolerance, your individual asset allocation. However with all these caveats, I stated what I did was promote about 25% of my equities portfolio principally which means my inventory portfolio. Now, I didn’t promote any of my tax advantaged accounts.
I didn’t promote something in an IRA or 401k. These are accounts that I intend to maintain into my sixties and seventies, not pay a penalty and use that for long-term wealth and my long-term retirement. However I bought about 25% of my regular brokerage accounts. Now, I do know that I’m a little bit bit completely different than a few of my associates that I convey on the present right here like James Dard or Kathy Feki who’ve virtually one hundred percent of their internet value in actual property. I’m not like that. I estimate that my equities, my inventory portfolio is sort of a third to possibly 40% of my whole internet value. And if you happen to do, the mathematics yr is say, has bought about 25% of that, that’s like eight to 10% of my whole internet value, which is a reasonably large transfer for me at this level in my investing profession.
So the query is then why did I do that? Do I believe the inventory market goes to crash or what’s occurring right here? I’m not a inventory knowledgeable. I do observe it fairly intently, however I’m not so assured in myself that I believe that I can time the market and say when and if the inventory market goes to crash. However after I have a look at the actually large image and I zoom out of every part that’s been occurring in numerous asset courses throughout the economic system for the final decade, the final 20 years, I believe that shares are going to underperform within the coming years. I don’t know if which means there’s going to be a crash after which a rebound. I don’t know if which means they’re simply going to develop very slowly over the following couple of years. However once you have a look at a few of the most basic methods of valuing the inventory market and projecting its efficiency ahead, what you see is that shares are very, very costly.
And there are plenty of alternative ways you can worth the inventory market, however two that I personally like to take a look at, one is known as the buffet rule, which is a ratio of the nation’s whole GDP to the worth of the inventory market, the overall worth of the inventory market. And by that metric, shares are very, very costly proper now there’s one other quite common manner of valuing shares referred to as PE ratios or value to earnings ratio, which principally compares the worth of 1 share of inventory to the overall earnings of that firm. And if you happen to have a look at each of those metrics of evaluating inventory market or a number of different of them, they’re very, very excessive. And former instances once we look traditionally when equities values have been this excessive, the inventory market underperformed and in lots of circumstances it has underperformed 4 years and generally that’s three years, generally that’s 5 years, generally that’s 10 years.
And once more, that doesn’t imply the market is essentially going to crash. It simply means we simply had two years in a row the place the s and p 500 went up greater than 20%. That’s wonderful. It was nice. I used to be very glad to be closely invested within the inventory marketplace for the final two years, however I simply don’t assume these returns might be maintained. I believe that the most effective beneficial properties have been had, and this isn’t essentially even a commentary on the economic system as an entire, though there’s recession threat. Don’t get me mistaken. That is simply type of an evaluation of earlier durations the place inventory valuations obtained this excessive and what occurs after. In order that’s my have a look at the inventory market. And this type of relates again to what I’ve been speaking about with actual property, proper? My philosophy about investing is discovering belongings which might be comparatively protected and low threat which have upside.
I simply don’t see that a lot upside within the inventory market proper now, even when the market doesn’t crash and there was plenty of volatility these days, however even when the market stays near the place it’s, I simply don’t see it going up that rather more within the subsequent couple of years as a result of it’s already simply so costly. You’re most likely questioning, can’t you make the identical case for actual property? Actual property is tremendous costly, proper? Properly, probably not, or not less than that’s not the best way that I have a look at it as a result of yeah, actual property is actually costly proper now, nevertheless it’s resulting from actually completely different points. We gained’t get absolutely into that, however if you happen to hearken to the present, you most likely know that plenty of the explanation that actual property is so costly proper now could be largely resulting from a provide difficulty. There’s a lack of whole housing stock in america.
It’s getting even increasingly more costly to construct, and that has actually pushed up actual property costs over the past decade or extra. The opposite factor that modifications the way you consider the actual property market versus the inventory market is that housing is a necessity, proper? Folks have to stay in these dwelling, nobody wants inventory. So when inventory market will get unstable or actually costly, individuals may simply promote them with out actually any implications for his or her fast high quality of life. That isn’t true within the housing market. One other issue with the housing market is that 70% of people that promote their houses go on to rebuy. So that you wouldn’t simply go promote your property since you thought costs may go down a pair proportion factors as a result of then you would need to go purchase into antagonistic market circumstances as a substitute of what occurs within the inventory market the place individuals unload when issues get too unstable or too costly. With actual property, you might simply do nothing so long as you’re capable of make your mortgage funds, you might simply select to not promote. And so although it makes the dynamics and the basics of the inventory market and the housing market actually, actually completely different. So to sum this all up, the best way I’m seeing it’s that there’s much less upside in shares and equities proper now than I see in actual property. That’s it. We do should take a fast break everybody, however we’ll be proper again in only a minute.
Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. We’re right here speaking in regards to the upside period and how one can reap the benefits of it right here in 2025. So let’s speak about these upsides in actual property which have me excited and making these strikes and truly did an entire episode on 10 completely different upsides that you should use in your individual offers. That one got here out on January twenty seventh. It was present 10 75, so you’ll be able to go examine that out. However a few the upsides that I’m personally on the lookout for are one lease progress. I’ve made the case up to now and we’ll proceed to that, though I believe the primary half of 2025, possibly all of 2025 may need sluggish lease progress. There’s a extremely good case that lease progress goes to choose up from 2026 going ahead. The second is path of progress and constructing in areas the place there’s plenty of infrastructure and cash being invested.
The third is worth add. These are issues like doing the burr technique, flipping or simply discovering methods so as to add capability to houses. The fourth is zoning upside the place including ADUs or further items on properties and naturally different issues like proprietor occupied methods, which I’m already doing as a result of doing this stay and flip this yr. So provided that and provided that I simply bought an enormous chunk of my inventory portfolio, how am I going to reinvest that into actual property? As a result of frankly, the explanation that I like actual property and I make investments primarily in actual property and that I’m making this transfer is as a result of long-term, my long-term aim is to get sufficient cashflow that I can stay off of. And so every time I see that there’s type of a chance to reposition a few of my cash right into a asset that’s going to construct me long-term cashflow, that’s type of what I’m going to do, even when it’s not going to be the most effective cashflow proper now.
However as I stated initially of the present, I truly haven’t been capable of make any rental property offers work to date right here in 2025. I’ve supplied on a number of, I’ve been taking a look at lots. I’ve underwritten fairly a number of offers, however I haven’t been capable of make any work and that’s okay. I don’t prefer to push it. If the offers aren’t there, I’m not going to purchase them. However as a result of I do assume market circumstances are type of ripening for higher offers to be on the market, I’m principally going to separate the cash that I pulled out of the inventory market into two various things. In the beginning, I’m going to take 50% of what I bought and put it right into a cash market account. When you haven’t heard of a cash market account, it’s very related. He’s a really related rate of interest to a excessive yield financial savings account.
There’s some variations that I gained’t get into, however principally I can earn 4, 4.5% on my cash proper now, and I like that for 2 causes. First is that it’s extremely liquid if you happen to haven’t heard this time period earlier than, liquidity by way of investing principally simply means how simply you’ll be able to flip an asset or an funding into money and cash market accounts are just like high-yield financial savings accounts. You may simply simply spend that cash. And that’s vital to me as a result of I’m going to be actively on the lookout for offers, rental properties, and I’m truly beginning to take a look at and underwrite multifamily offers proper now, and I need to have that cash rapidly obtainable to me in case that I discover that deal, which I look forward to finding within the subsequent couple of months. I need that cash obtainable in order that I can act rapidly. Sure, within the inventory market, you’ll be able to promote it comparatively rapidly and you’ll pull your cash out inside every week or two, however I don’t need to be ready the place I’ve to promote my inventory on a day that it occurred to go down two or 3%, proper?
That might be horrible. So I as a substitute selected to promote 25% of my portfolio on an excellent day after which put that cash into this cash market account in order that one, I’m incomes greater than inflation, so I’m nonetheless incomes an actual inflation adjusted return and I’ve extremely liquid belongings that I can use to purchase actual property offers within the subsequent couple of months. And truthfully, a 4% return proper now appears fairly good to me in comparison with how unstable the equities market is. And I might be mistaken, the inventory market may go up 5%, it may go up 10%, however proper now, the chance adjusted return of equities versus a cash market account, I’m not complaining a few cash market account, particularly as a result of it has the secondary good thing about giving me liquidity. So that’s the very first thing that I’m doing with that cash that I pulled out of the inventory market.
Now, the second factor I’m doing, and I do know that is most likely going to be controversial for some individuals listening to this podcast, however I’m going to make use of it to pay down my mortgage on my stay and flip that I’m going to be transferring into right here in Q2. I do know what persons are saying, it’s best to leverage as a lot as attainable or that’s going to decelerate my scaling. However simply give it some thought this manner, for each single greenback that I pay into my mortgage and I don’t leverage as a result of I might be taking out a mortgage at let’s say 6.5%, I’m principally incomes a six level half p.c return on that funding. And once more, I might be mistaken, however I don’t assume the inventory market goes to get that over the following couple of months. And within the meantime, I can cut back my residing bills by like $1,500 or $2,000 a month.
That’s some huge cash that I might be saving, including to my liquidity, including to my stockpile of money that I can use for actual property. And not less than to me in my evaluation of various asset courses on the market, it takes plenty of threat off the desk. And to me, it’s worthwhile to do that on this investing local weather, and possibly I’ll do that for years if circumstances keep the identical and I’ll simply hold a extremely low mortgage on my major residence. However my expectation is that I’ll most likely simply refi this and possibly I’ll refi it three months from now or six months from now. It could be years from now, but when charges come down or I see a deal that’s higher than that 7% money on money return, I get by paying down my mortgage, I’ll refi and I’ll simply use that cash to gasoline my portfolio after I assume circumstances are higher.
So to me, this strikes simply is smart. I don’t see an enormous quantity of upside within the inventory market proper now, and so I’m taking some cash and incomes a constructive return and giving myself liquidity to be able to purchase actual property within the second half of the yr, and I’m taking different cash and simply lowering my residing bills, taking threat off the desk, and that cash doesn’t have to remain locked in my major residence perpetually. It would keep in there till I discover different alternatives to make use of that cash, whether or not that’s three months, six months, or three years from now. So personally, that’s what I’m doing, however as I stated on the high, that is primarily based on me, my targets, my present useful resource allocation, my learn of the scenario. However the query is what must you be doing with your individual portfolio? My first piece of recommendation is to guage the chance adjusted returns of various asset courses your self.
When you haven’t heard this time period earlier than, threat adjusted return, it principally means you’ll be able to’t simply have a look at the upside potential of each single deal. You even have to take a look at how dangerous that exact asset is as a result of this falls on a spectrum, proper? On the low finish of the chance adjusted return spectrum might be bonds or cash market account, like what I’m investing in proper now. These are very low threat, however very low return choices for holding your cash. On the opposite finish of the spectrum, you most likely see cryptocurrency the place you will have alternatives to double your cash or triple your cash, however the threat of you shedding plenty of that cash can also be actually excessive. And so you need to type of have a look at every asset class, every potential funding on this lens. How possible is it for me to earn return? How possible is it that I’m going to lose a few of my cash?
That calculation, that thought course of is threat adjusted returns and albeit, determining and pondering by way of threat adjusted returns, it’s not as simple because it was 5 years in the past. There’s simply no manner I might’ve paid down my mortgage as a substitute of shopping for one other rental, simply no manner. I by no means would’ve considered doing it. However in the present day, after I reevaluate threat adjusted returns, it makes plenty of sense. And the fact of that is you actually just do have to do that for your self. There’s no goal analysis of what the most effective threat adjusted returns are, proper? You may see big upside within the inventory market proper now and assume that I’m loopy to see threat there or threat of underperformance there. That’s completely as much as you for me, my private understanding of markets, my threat tolerance, my threat capability, my long-term targets, my present cashflow, it’s simply completely different from yours.
And so you must take into consideration this your self. The second factor you must do after you type of look across the market and assess the chance adjusted returns and completely different choices on your cash is to think about your targets. Do you need to be actually lively in your investments? Do you need to be managing and excited about your cash day-after-day? In that case, you might doubtlessly take into consideration reallocating into completely different asset courses, but when not, if you happen to’re extra the kind of one that’s stated it and neglect it, I simply need to purchase index funds, that’s completely what you need to be doing. You don’t have to be doing what I’m doing. I’m comparatively lively in managing my portfolio, and so I’m all the time excited about these offers. I’m all the time researching these offers. If this isn’t one thing that you just do or need to do, then simply go away your cash and your allocations as they’re.
The third and very last thing that you need to be asking your self as you’re excited about how you can reap the benefits of the upside period as we go into Q2 is would you truly do one thing with the cash, proper? When you have been excited about promoting equities or possibly you’re excited about promoting a rental property or some actual property, take into consideration what you’d realistically do with that cash. As a result of if you happen to have been going to promote your index funds, for instance, after which simply do nothing with that cash, you’re going to place it in an everyday financial savings account and never earn some huge cash, and also you’re simply type of doing it out of worry, you’re most likely higher off, not less than traditionally talking, simply maintaining your cash within the inventory market and letting it compound over the following a number of years. But when as a substitute, you’re reallocating as a result of you will have a plan to right away earn higher returns, otherwise you need to place your self to reap the benefits of alternatives that you just see coming within the subsequent couple weeks, subsequent couple months, subsequent couple of years, I believe that’s a completely completely different factor as a result of bear in mind, if you happen to do promote actual property otherwise you do promote shares, you’re going to should pay taxes on it.
There are repercussions for that. This isn’t similar to, oh, I can take my cash out of the inventory market, see what occurs, after which I’ll simply put it again in if it doesn’t work out. I imply, you might do this, however that’s not transfer since you’ll have paid taxes unnecessarily. You must have a plan on your cash. So my three items of recommendation as we head into Q2 on this upside period are, once more, one, consider completely different asset courses for threat adjusted returns. And that’s not simply inventory market versus actual property. Try this for particular person actual property asset courses. Take into consideration threat adjusted returns for single household houses versus small multifamily versus flipping versus short-term leases. And assess if you happen to assume there are good alternatives, and when you have the correct ready for the place you’re placing your cash relative to the second step, which is your targets.
So once more, have a look at these threat adjusted returns, then take into account your targets and take into consideration when you have your cash in the correct place given these two issues. After which lastly, actually simply intestine examine your self and ensure that if you’re going to make a transfer, if you’re going to reallocate capital, reallocate a few of your time within the upside period, just remember to’re truly going to observe by way of on it as a result of type of doing a transfer like this halfheartedly might be going to go away you worse off than once you began and simply worse off than if you happen to simply did nothing. So once more, do these threat adjusted return assessments, take into account your targets, after which just remember to even have a plan to do one thing along with your cash. That’s true if you happen to’re reallocating sources or if you happen to’re simply making an attempt to place extra precept into your general portfolio right here within the upside period.
Alright, everybody, that’s my upside period replace for Q1 and providing you with some ideas about the place I’m getting in Q2. I might love to listen to what you all are doing along with your alternatives for upside as we enter Q2. So if you happen to’re watching right here on YouTube, make certain to let me know within the feedback. However if you happen to’re listening on the podcast, hit me up on both Instagram or on BiggerPockets and let me know what you’re excited about. Thanks all a lot for watching and listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets podcast. I’m Dave Meyer. We’ll see you subsequent time.